dave wainscott idolizes boNO..

What is right... Wrong.

2012-01-28T13:39:00.000-08:00

Go ahead... tell me what is correct. What is right and what is wrong.

Great, I am so happy that you were able to point it out.

Now, what do you see on the left.....?

Is there one picture or two? Which picture is correct?

I wish there could be a picture like this, which depicts 10 or more "correct" photos.

Now, look in the mirror and tell me how many people you see! Be honest.

One person?

Two, maybe three? What about during the night. Is there a different one that comes out then? The honest one. The fair one.. We do not want to face up to the ugly ones... The lying one.. the one with no honor...

I love this quote:

Mr. Lely, I desire you would use all your skill to paint my picture truly like me, and not flatter me at all; but remark all these roughnesses, pimples, warts, and everything as you see me, otherwise I will never pay a farthing for it.

wow, can you see it? A rough attempt for honest approach...who said it???
well, Oliver Cromwell.

I have painted myself so thoroughly; my brush is dry. My face, cracked with age, no longer can dig deeper. My warts are there... open and ready for all to see, perhaps to learn from. Gently, I touch my friends, enemy. My friends know my touch to be genuine, gentle, warm, never to mock but to help. To joke with; not laugh about. They find me laughing at my own mistakes, crying at a sad song.

But, enough of me.. This is not about me.. but instead it is about Pastors. All Pastors...

After being on this planet sixty-four years, I have come to the thought that most Pastors should find new work. They clearly are only interested in money.

They all clearly carry an agenda on their back, pocket and seemly are intensely interested in what we/I can bring to the table in finances.

Looking at the non-profit arena in general finds an open eye-sore that is festering fast.

In one case, I have found that one member in a 501(c)(3)non-profit is so miss-informed that he believes that ALL the non-profit monies (in his non-profit) are going to help the needy, etc,etc.
The facts (for his non-profit) clearly and unequivocally prove that 90% (89.29%)of the non-profit goes to the Pastor. And, depending on how you would like to run the numbers.. none of the money in his group, indeed, help anything but the Pastor.

Typical???

again, in my experience, yes. (remember my edifier/quantifier).... MOST !

again.. more to come

just plain wrong--wainscott

2012-01-27T14:01:00.000-08:00

I had put a letter in Caps. and had put a word in the title of the website webpage???

The word... the

the cap... T

so it read "The Third Day Fellowship of Fresno"

I was phoned and balled out so fast as to make my head swim. Really... I mean.. REALLY!!

This man (dave Wainscott) was clearly so elitist that I almost hung up on him. He was the pastor for crying out loud. It became much worse than this as time went by..

I ask for your financial support

2011-12-22T12:13:00.000-08:00

I allege that there may financial problems with mr dave wainscott's non-profit church. I am asking that you provide me with anything you know about your donations to his church.

1. do you know where your money was spent?
2. did, at any time, mr dave wainscott tell you where that money was spent?
3. did you follow through and really know the money you gave, went to where he said it was going?
4. was there any public discloses of third day fellow finances?
5. Did you know that as a non-profit all finances must be public?

I tell you that I have been trying to ascertain the "where and when" of dave wainscott's non-profit and as of now he has not been forthcoming. (I have received a three letter "budget" from him)

I ask for your financial support to mount a campaign through the legal system to force a public accounting of all monies given to him.

\
please send me an email to me and I will give you my address and a completed break down of any monies spent and if no monies are spent I will return the money to you.

regards,
steve porter

ps would you buy a used car from the guy on the right????

A quote from mr dave wainscott:
"I also must confess wholly/holy obsession with U2"

A direct quote from third day facebook
Merlin Robertson www.3dff.com meets at our pastor Daves home, Because We give ALL our Money away!!!! ""because other churches are more Imortant than ours" Dave's Words.... I Love Dave and Sonya , and My 3d Family !!!!

here is a major problem with the wainscot church...75% or more is given to the Pastor

and the body of the church seems not to know????

2011-11-01T12:53:00.000-07:00

Two Traps and more!

Too often Christians fall into one of two traps relating to the issue of judging:

One is to refrain entirely, giving as a basis Christ's words of ''judge not lest you be judged''.
The other is to render a verdict on every person and situation that comes to one's attention.

Clearly both approaches are defective.

Another problem with Christians in dealing with judging is:

some parishioners cannot leave a pastor because they credit him or her with a life-changing event, such as inspiring them to overcome drug addiction or turning around a disastrous marriage.

To accept such a pastor's guilt, she said, would lead them to contemplate another possibility: Is my life-changing event just as fraudulent as the pastor who inspired it?

Go here for a great read

It is clearly against the grain of humans to step back and take an objective look at their live changing event!

"The devil behind the music stand"

2011-09-18T15:43:00.000-07:00

Just call me dave, he said. Nothing special, no Pastor or Sir for me, Steve. You may have heard about me but, really,... there is nothing to tell!

I paraphrase but really want to put quotes around everything I remember him saying. Everything he said, struck such a cacophonic noise of sharp and irritating words, that it would jar my teeth to listen to him.Yet, my wife was comforted by his words, so I held back. Now, I wish I had told my story from treetops and box-tops. It is really that important to speak up against the devil.

He hides in everything. You find him where you have no idea he should be. Incessant, tireless, he marches to his own beat and pulls you in with his words. His words... how they creep into instinctive use. They, almost, become real! You feel that they are vague realities, pulling at your deepest mindset. You, almost, hope that they can be real. But, of course, they can't. There is no Truth behind them.

Books, he does use them well! Quotes, books, chapter and verse by the thousands he uses as he works his vile and veiled wording. Hiding, always,hiding, behind women skirts. Skirts... never, have I seen a man hide so well behind them. Even going so far as claiming that he thinks better using the "Right" side of his brain?

How does one defend against this devil?

?

dave wainscott is only part of a larger problem. The "I" Generation. Everything belongs to them. They even embrace Apple, just to say... "See, I am special". "I am cool". "My dad buys only the best! Why, well- I am the best!!!!"

Excuuuuse me---- while I get sick. (oops, I used a Steve Martin joke... that dated me.)

I do not stop by here enough. I do not write as much as I want to. I am "out there" working against the dave wainscott's of this World. I do not hide.

Folks "beat him at his own game" .... read the Bible. Learn the catch words he and others use! Do not let a word by-pass you. If you don't know the word.. look it up. If they use a quote from Til, Hegel, Soren K. Kant, or Jesus.....please find it! read it. know it.

Go back to them and stick the quote right in their face with the correct meaning (if they mis-used it... they probably did). Do not go lightly into the night. Carry extra oil for your lamp.

Go tell that bitch, Herod,..........

2011-08-07T08:33:00.000-07:00

With out question this Facebook status brings out the worst in me.
Mr. dave wainscott on many occasions has tried to teach that:
" A modern day equivalent translation" of Luke 13:32

(Lk 13:32 He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will drive out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’)

would have to include that fox be translated as "bitch" or perhaps "son a bitch".???

Not only did I challenge him on this and say he was wrong! But, when he (wainscott) referred to a very famous teacher of the Book of Luke and said that the teacher would back him up on this translation... I ran to that teacher and asked?

"Could wainscott be correct?"

The actual cuss word does not bother me. The intent and tone of the Luke sentence is, by far, more interesting than the use of what we today reflect upon as a dirty word. Dirty words come and go but, correlation to meaning gives, by far, more content. Content is what we need when we speak of the Bible, not worthless references. What I asked of wainscott was "what is your reference point... and why?"

Where are you going to start. How can you defend yourself?

When you tell me that fox can be a substituted with bitch; then bitch becomes inferred to be the lowest form of a woman. If, you hold children can only be honored; when conceived in marriage.

(

MORE TO COME HERE!

)

Yes, you are right.. Not only did the "famous" teacher dump on mr dave wainscott but, left him out in the cold with no possible avenue of retreat!

When mr dave wainscott called me a liar (in open forum) and "parapharsed" said there was no way I could have gotten hold of this teacher. I gave the World his open email address (the famous teachers invites questions?.. what a concept!) and asked wainscott to verify his wrongness. He scoffed at me and continues to this day to hold on to a teaching that is wrong. The quick dirty way to justify your maddness is to do as mr dave wainscott does... rebuking with.. Oh! your the wrong one here. Rather than open discussing the different possibilities that could go with the translation.

The more you know about mr dave wainscott's teaching; you will discover that he is just a phony liar.

The Holy Heteroclite claims:when Bono "smiles ever so slighty," something's up

2011-07-25T07:01:00.000-07:00

My comment,as always, is: dave wainscott still building golden idols of boNO!!!

Personable, I thinks boNO may have forgot his lines or had a gas bubble when he smiles like that? or he is laughing at not paying ANY TAXES....

funny how I thought we loved God... not boNO?

one of mr dave wainscott's exact quotes:

"I also must confess wholly/holy obsession with U2"

Lets look at the word "obsession":

ob·ses·sion [uhb-sesh-uhn]
Origin 1505–15; < Latin obsessiōn- (stem of obsessiō ) blockade, siege, equivalent to obsess ( us ) ( see obsess) + -iōn- -ion

1.the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea, image, desire, etc.
2.the idea, image, desire, feeling, etc., itself.
3.the state of being obsessed.
4.the act of obsessing.
Related forms
ob·ses·sion·al, adjective
non·ob·ses·sion, noun
non·ob·ses·sion·al, adjective
self-ob·ses·sion, noun

ob·sess [uhb-ses]
–verb (used with object)
1.to dominate or preoccupy the thoughts, feelings, or desires of (a person); beset, trouble, or haunt persistently or abnormally: Suspicion obsessed him.
–verb (used without object)
2.to think about something unceasingly or persistently; dwell obsessively upon something.

My thoughts on that quote: You can not be obsessed with anything but God.... period!
And, you want to follow a person that does this... why????

Just read a fascinating article on addiction to quote a part:

In the century that followed, a revolution has occurred in our understanding of addiction to mind-altering substances. Today, many experts believe that compulsive behaviors such as excessive gambling, hypersexual activity and overeating fit the disease model of addiction. Rather than a form of slavery, a nasty habit, or bad character, brain imaging studies have demonstrated that addiction is the neurological equivalent of an overloaded power switch. Once activated, an insurgency of bad judgment and risky behaviors hijacks the brain’s delicate circuitry, in exchange for brief, artificial states of well being.

In the years to come, it is certain that the definition—as well as the science and treatment—of addiction will continue to evolve in ways we cannot even imagine.

This is a wiz-bang description of mr dave wainscott!

dave wainscott says country music sucks....Hear this!

2011-04-21T15:13:00.000-07:00

http://www.thejohnnycashproject.com/#/explore/TopRated

Over the years, I have found the following to be more true as the time goes by!
1. dave wainscott is a nice guy as long as you do not know him!
2. On the surface, as you listen to him, he gives a very good "sermon"! Just don't think as he talks.
3. His "inter" circle of friends is very, very narrow and it takes years to become "in" that circle!
4. As you peal the onion layers off of dave wainscott, you will not like what is inside.
5. The darkest, most evil presence I have ever felt was in dave wainscott's computer/study/library area. I really wanted to run from that area.

Why do I continue to talk about him.... simple... to warn you!

Just found a great article on why people stick to their Pastor no matter what; here an example:

She said some parishioners cannot leave a pastor because they credit him or her with a life-changing event, such as inspiring them to overcome drug addiction or turning around a disastrous marriage.

To accept such a pastor's guilt, she said, would lead them to contemplate another possibility: Is my life-changing event just as fraudulent as the pastor who inspired it?

Go here for a great read

dave wainscott idolizes boNO of u2. Proof? Read his blog. He will never criticize anything boNO does??

U2 guitarist's (Edge) project rejected by coastal agency

AP – FILE In this April 8, 2009 photo, an ocean view seen from a hill area adjacent to the proposed Malibu …
By NOAKI SCHWARTZ, Associated Press –
LOS ANGELES – A proposal led by U2 guitarist The Edge for five mansions overlooking Malibu, Calif., has been rejected by California's coastal development agency, despite assurances by him that it would be one of the greenest developments in the world.
The California Coastal Commission voted 8-to-4 Thursday against the proposal, citing concerns that it would irrevocably damage the environment.
Staff told the commission that approving such a project would set a precedent and invite other large developments to rugged, environmentally sensitive locations.
"In my 38 years, I have never seen a project as environmentally devastating as this one," said Peter Douglas, executive director for the commission. "An environmentally sensitive person would never pick this site to develop."
more Here

A related article on the lies of U2/boNO/edge

Carbonfootprint.com, a company which assesses environmental damage, estimates the tour will pile up 65,000 tons in carbon emissions.

David Byrne recently blogged, "Those stadium shows may possibly be the most extravagant and expensive (production-wise) ever: $40 million to build the stage and, having done the math, we estimate 200 semi-trucks crisscrossing Europe for the duration. It could be professional envy speaking here, but it sure looks like, well, overkill, and just a wee bit out of balance given all the starving people in Africa and all."

But the band says it’s not ignoring those concerns. In an interview with the BBC recently, guitarist The Edge said, "It's probably unfair to single out rock 'n' roll. There's many other things that are in the same category but as it happens we have a program to offset whatever carbon footprint we have."

Edge was vague on details..... more here

The rumor says that boNO's plan to offset the carbon print was to kill cows (to reduce methane). In a double edge sword (ya, the pun is silly) this would ensure that he and the band would be able to eat steaks while on tour!!!
What does this have to do with mr dave wainscott sucking... why, he is obsessed with ANYTHING boNO does and claims EVERTHING boNO does is God like....
Therefore, U2 = wainscott and both are lairs thus they suck

Dave Wainscott's terrible leadership: Katrina and now Japan!

2011-03-16T09:18:00.000-07:00

Katrina had hit...
I was openly praying on Third Day Fellowship in Fresno forums and in the background working with my church (here in Bakersfield) getting 50 mobile home ready to move into the hardest hit areas. My prayers were openly posted on the third day fellowship prayer wall.I was candidate for leadership board and Webmaster at the time of this terrible display of very poor leadership by mr. dave wainscott!

dave wainscott sent me a extremely caustic e-mail casting dispersions on my attitude!

I am totally disabled and only use between 18 and 22 percent of my lungs due to COPD.
Needless to say, I quit my job with dave wainscott and have since openly discussed his poor mind set and OCD towards boNO.

Of course, Nothing on the Japan meltdown has been forth coming from wainscott.... He is not able to think of anything but U2 and himself.

If you support wainscott.... take your money and burn it... it will do almost that good!

Wait... breaking news... dave wainscott has mentioned the japan problem. Like this is a problem he could care about!!.. lol.. only after my post of his poor record did he say anything... what a dipstick!

Here is a photo of the third day church build on Palm Ave., Fresno. He was the Pastor??? of it. Cost of the building and salary on a monthly basis. $6,000.00 (approx) rent was on a sliding upward scale. It didn't matter the rent. We could not afford any portion of the rent.

Total attendance on a Monthly basis maybe 25-30 people with the means to tithe.

$6,000.00/30 = $200.00 per month

We also had his house payment on top of rent. We were stupid to let this man put us in this insane position!!

He went on, after that disastrous time, to try installing his church in a bank, shown above?

Then, wanted the Fresno area churches to get together and rent a floor in a Fresno high rise building downtown Fresno(same place this above pictured empty bank) for $10,000.00 per month for a 24/7 prayer center. Folks, $120,000.00 per year? This man is nuts!

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/24/spirituality-at-the-oscars-what-the-nominations-mean/

2011-02-24T15:07:00.000-08:00

By Lisa Respers France, CNN

None of the movies nominated for a best film Academy Award this year have been labeled “religious,” but many have deeply spiritual overtones.

Even “Toy Story 3?” Yes, even that wildly popular animated film manages to sneak in a message about faith and friendship.

“It’s kind of an unusual year – almost all of the top films have relatively little explicit religious dimensions to them,” said Brent Plate, a writer who teaches religious studies at Hamilton College in Clinton, New York. “But these films are asking the same questions that religions ask: Where did we come from, how did we get here, where are we going and who are we?”

more here

up close with our Sun

2011-02-18T12:07:00.001-08:00

Gravity Waves

2011-01-04T08:50:00.000-08:00

Image courtesy MODIS/NASA

The surf's not actually up off the coast of South Island, New Zealand: The large waves that seem to be rolling toward land aren't in the water, but in the air above. This December 21 picture, from NASA's Terra satellite, captured a phenomenon called atmospheric gravity waves.

Such waves form when buoyancy pushes air upward while gravity pulls it downward, giving rise to oscillations in the air. At the low point of a wave, more air touches the surface of the ocean, roughening the otherwise smooth water.

When sunlight hits water at the same angle as a satellite's view, smooth areas reflect light like mirrored surfaces while rough regions scatter light and appear darker. That means if atmospheric gravity waves are present, their pattern becomes visible in the water.

Published December 30, 2010

more here

Pope calls Egypt church attack vile gesture

2011-01-02T09:38:00.000-08:00

updated 1/2/2011 9:22:11 AM ET

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VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict on Sunday condemned a bomb blast outside a church in Egypt which killed at least 21 people, the latest in a series of attacks on Christians in the Middle East and Africa.

"This vile gesture of death, like that of putting bombs near to the houses of Christians in Iraq to force them to leave, offends God and all of humanity," the pope said after his weekly angelus blessing.

more here

What is a Coptic Christian here

Another Slant here

Are they Christian? go here

What would mr dave wainscott say?..... who cares! find the truth and he does not have it.

My Take: When the fat girl got mad at God

2011-01-02T09:20:00.000-08:00

Editor's Note: Lysa TerKeurst is president of Proverbs 31 Ministries and author of Made to Crave: Satisfying Your Deepest Desire With God, Not Food. Lysa blogs daily atwww.lysaterkeurst.com.

By Lysa TerKeurst, Special to CNN

Three years ago I was stuck in a rut of wishful thinking and excuses with my weight loss. At the beginning of each day I would say I wanted things to be different. I would vow in my heart to make things different. I would even make a plan to stop the snacks, increase the veggies, and say no to the desserts.

But then life would happen. And the excuses were so very plentiful. So, my resolve would melt away like butter on a hot yeast roll.

Of course the next morning I would always get up and weigh myself hoping that somehow magic would have happened over night. Despite my indulgences from the day before, maybe just maybe the numbers would have gone down.

But the scale was not impressed with my wishful thinking. So you know who I’d get mad at?

more here

“Christian famous” pastor quits his church, moves to Asia

2010-12-27T14:08:00.000-08:00

“Christian famous” pastor quits his church, moves to Asia

By, Eric Marrapodi, CNN

He pastored a 4,000-member church in California. He was a sought-after speaker at major conferences, wrote two best-sellers and launched a DVD teaching series.

Then he abruptly resigned and left the country.

I really enjoy listening to this fellow. I agree with his quiting 100%. So many Pastors read their Bio and then they believe it....(you listening Wainscott).

incredible movie of Sun!

2010-12-15T09:10:00.000-08:00

We really know so little!

Would You Go Camping in the Cold with Sarah Palin?

2010-12-13T09:53:00.000-08:00

My answer.... only mine.. heck yes!!!

BUT, I would also go camping with any of the major political players in the world. One on one.

To see how they act, think and play-out over roasting Marsh-mellows or hiking a nature trail would be incredible for me.

It would be a huge test of Faith for me! Would I roast the Marsh-mellow or shoot the more despicable players?

Einstein's 'biggest blunder' turns out to be right

2010-11-28T09:55:00.000-08:00

By Clara Moskowitz

updated 11/24/2010 1:58:36 PM ET

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A. Evans / NRAO / NASA / ESA / STScI

This Hubble image displays a pair of spiral galaxies with swirling arms. The binary galactic system is located in the constellation Draco, about 350 million light-years away. Astronomers studied galaxy pairs like this to determine the geometry of the universe, which shed light on dark energy.

What Einstein called his worst mistake, scientists are now depending on to help explain the universe.

In 1917, Albert Einstein inserted a term called the cosmological constant into his theory of general relativity to force the equations to predict a stationary universe in keeping with physicists' thinking at the time. When it became clear that the universe wasn't actually static, but was expanding instead, Einstein abandoned the constant, calling it the '"biggest blunder" of his life.

But lately scientists have revived Einstein's cosmological MORE HERE

entanglement..... faster than speed of light?

2010-10-09T09:54:00.000-07:00

Quantum entanglement is just spooky — even Einstein thought so. As if particles (as in particle physics) have telepathic empathy.

The theory of quantum mechanics predicts that two or more particles can become "entangled" so that even after they are separated in space, when an action is performed on one particle, the other particle responds immediately. Scientists still don't know how the particles send these instantaneous messages to each other, but somehow, once they are entwined, they retain a fundamental connection.

This bizarre idea riled Einstein so much he called it "spooky action at a distance."

An artistic representation of two entangled mechanical oscillators made up of two pairs of trapped ions. The arrows denote the internal state of two of the ions. The mist between the two mechanical oscillators is used to represent the entanglement. Credit: John Jost and Jason Amini

A human Voice......."Please God.... Let it Be!?"

2010-09-12T11:26:00.000-07:00

In ancient wall, scholar sees proof for Bible

2010-07-28T14:09:00.000-07:00

Tara Todras-Whitehill / AP
Archeologist Eilat Mazar, center in red, who is leading the excavation of newly discovered fortifications outside the Old City walls, talks to journalists in Jerusalem, Monday, Feb. 22, 2010.
by Matti Friedman

updated 2/22/2010 12:12:48 PM ET
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JERUSALEM — An Israeli archaeologist said Monday that ancient fortifications recently excavated in Jerusalem date back 3,000 years to the time of King Solomon and support the biblical narrative about the era.
If the age of the wall is correct, the finding would be an indication that Jerusalem was home to a strong central government that had the resources and manpower needed to build massive fortifications in the 10th century B.C.
That's a key point of dispute among scholars, because it would match the Bible's account that the Hebrew kings David and Solomon ruled from Jerusalem around that time.
While some Holy Land archaeologists support that version of history — including the archaeologist behind the dig, Eilat Mazar — others posit that David's monarchy was largely mythical and that there was no strong government to speak of in that era.

More Here

leaders

2010-07-26T11:38:00.000-07:00

There is no doubt that I hold those that teach/preach/lead in the field Theology/Religion/Divinity to a higher plane. I am expected to do this. The Bible has some very important Books, the Pastoral letters, that also put the leadership on a very high accountable plane.

But, why?

False Doctrine!

who teaches falsely? quite a few.

boNO's junk

2010-07-23T18:15:00.000-07:00

dave wainscott's obsesses over this man...WHY?

2010-07-14T12:02:00.000-07:00

mr dave wainscott:

"I also must confess wholly/holy obsession with U2"

boNO famous F-bomb on TV: "This is really, really [expletive] brilliant. Really, really, great."

can you NOT see the evil inside this man?

I hate every ACTION of this man......I do hope (NO pray) he is freed from his actions.

hey boNO... it is ok for you to cuss on tv now...

'Invisible Gorilla' Test Shows How Little We Notice - Yahoo! News

2010-07-13T07:48:00.000-07:00

Charles Q. Choi
LiveScience Contributor
LiveScience.com – 45 mins ago

A dumbfounding study roughly a decade ago that many now find hard to believe revealed that if people are asked to focus on a video of other people passing basketballs, about half of watchers missed a person in a gorilla suit walking in and out of the scene thumping its chest.

Now research delving further into this effect shows that people who know that such a surprising event is likely to occur are no better at noticing other unforeseen events - and may even be worse at noticing them - than others who aren't expecting the unexpected.

The so-called "invisible gorilla" test had volunteers watching a video where two groups of people - some dressed in white, some in black - are passing basketballs around. The volunteers were asked to count the passes among players dressed in white while ignoring the passes of those in black. (To watch the video for yourself, click here.)

These confounding findings from cognitive psychologists Daniel Simons and Christopher Chabris detailed in a 1999 study revealed how people can focus so hard on something that they become blind to the unexpected, even when staring right at it. When one develops "inattentional blindness," as this effect is called, it becomes easy to miss details when one is not looking out for them.

"Although people do still try to rationalize why they missed the gorilla, it's hard to explain such a failure of awareness without confronting the possibility that we are aware of far less of our world than we think," Simons told LiveScience.

Gorilla infamy

Full Story here

'Invisible Gorilla' Test Shows How Little We Notice - Yahoo! News:

dave wainscott full of it again!!!!

2010-06-25T10:38:00.000-07:00

Read this quote from mr dave wainscott’s blog; it is full of incorrectness, just as he is incorrect in many of his quotes. Please do not be distracted by false teachers!

“ But since that infamous Scripture that nine out of ten evangelicals would swear (well, promise) on stack of Bibles was in the Bible ("Avoid the appearance of evil") is nowhere in the Bible (and the one Scripture we confuse for that one actually makes basically the opposite point, please read this link from Tia Lynn)..”

Avoid the appearance of evil is referenced to 1 Thessalonians 5-22:

امْتَنِعُوا عَنْ كُلِّ شِبْهِ شَرّ. AVD 1 Thessalonians 5:2

KJV 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

NAB 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Refrain from every kind of evil.

NAS 1 Thessalonians 5:22 abstain from every form of evil.

NAU 1 Thessalonians 5:22 abstain from every form of evil.

NET 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Stay away from every form of evil.

NIB 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Avoid every kind of evil.

NIRV 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Stay away from every kind of evil.

NIV 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Avoid every kind of evil.

TNIV 1 Thessalonians 5:22 reject whatever is harmful.

TNT 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstayne from all suspicious thinges.

BGT 1 Thessalonians 5:22 ἀπὸ παντὸς εἴδους πονηροῦ ἀπέχεσθε.

BYZ 1 Thessalonians 5:22 ἀπὸ παντὸς εἴδους πονηροῦ ἀπέχεσθε.

VUO 1 Thessalonians 5:22 ab omni specie mala abstinete vos

lets use just ONE commentary to rebut wailing wainscott and his incorrect statements.

22 Allowance must also be made for professed spiritual manifestations that do not contribute but rather detract from the development of the local body. Paul designates this category by pantos eidous ponerou ("every kind of evil"). The expression lends itself to varying interpretations. Eidous ("kind"), in keeping with its predominant NT meaning (Luke 3:22; 9:29; John 5:37; 2Cor 5:7) may denote "appearance." Or in accord with the obvious antithesis between this and v. 21, it may mean "kind" or "species." The latter meaning (as in NIV) is preferable because spiritual gifts could hardly with any credibility assume the "appearance of evil," but they could be a "species of evil" falsely attributed to the Holy Spirit.

Ponerou ("of evil") likewise presents two options: if it is taken as an adjective qualifying eidous, the phrase is "evil kind," or taken as a substantive, a practical equivalent of the noun ponerias, the phrase is "kind of evil." Though the anarthrous adjective in Paul is more frequently adjectival in force, the nature of the present contrast with to kalon (v. 21) resolves this particular issue in favor of the substantival use adopted by NIV.

Paul very clearly intends an antithesis with v. 21 here. "Hold fast" (katechete, v. 21) to the good, but "hold yourselves free from" (apechesthe; NIV, "avoid," v. 22) every kind of evil that tries to parade as a genuine representation of the Spirit (Hiebert, p. 249). Only then can maximum benefit for the body of Christ in local worship be achieved

Absence of sunspots make scientists wonder if they're seeing a calm before a storm of energy

2010-06-23T17:24:00.000-07:00

Sunspots come and go, but recently they have mostly gone. For centuries, astronomers have recorded when these dark blemishes on the solar surface emerge, only to fade away after a few days, weeks or months. Thanks to their efforts, we know that sunspot numbers ebb and flow in cycles lasting about 11 years.
This Story
Why is the sun losing its spots?
Scientists find a big drop in the strength of solar magnetic fields

But for the past two years, the sunspots have mostly been missing. Their absence, the most prolonged in nearly 100 years, has taken even seasoned sun watchers by surprise. "This is solar behavior we haven't seen in living memory," says David Hathaway, a physicist at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala.

more here

good night

2010-06-20T09:40:00.001-07:00

Black Hole Chows Down As Scientists Watch

2010-06-19T09:07:00.000-07:00

Black Hole Chows Down As Scientists Watch
By Zoe Macintosh
SPACE.com Staff Writerposted: 18 June 2010
12:11 pm ET

Scientists have watched matter falling into a black hole for the first time ever.

Explosively brilliant light produced from a black hole's gobbling of matter has reached telescopes through a fluke of physics called gravitational microlensing.

A transient phenomenon, gravitational microlensing is the curving of light around a star or galaxy due to the body's gravitational warping of space. In this case, the gravity acts like a lens that bends light from the distant black hole into a new focus for telescopes, temporarily magnifying the light source during an alignment of all the black hole, the massive object bending the light, and Earth.

dead pastor walking

2010-06-17T12:32:00.000-07:00

Any person, claiming to be “of Faith”, and saying that CCM is cheesy is nuts. To claim speaking from a pulpit is “cheesy” is insane. But, the best quote from mr dave wainscott is his babel that my brother-in-law give up his job as assistant Pastor in the Harvest Church down in Riverside!

Why? Well, the church is to big???

mr.dave wainscott has also leveled his sixteen guns broadside at Country Music and at one time said that Celtic music was trash? He, later, recanted and is now claiming Celtic music is the “best”.. I think that is because another friend of ours (a radio personality) has been called to minister with Celtic music and wainscott and the radio personality became friends...

This radio personitily has been instrumental in obtaining interviews with people that mr dave wainscott loves and obesse over. . I have often wondered what type of friend this radio personitly would be to mr dave wainscott if he were NOT a radio station manager??? My guess, he would not give him the time of day.. to bad, really. I know this radio personitity and think he is very nice fellow!

Get a hold on this; the radio personality and I were friends but, now, it is alleged dave wainscott will not let him speak to me! This is the type of mind control this wainscott fellow is alleged to have?

My best guess is if you are somehow popular with the people..... wainscott wants to know you and have you as a friend so that you can promote dave wainscott..

I laugh and wonder if Michael W. Smith walked into wainscotts life how he would react to him. Na, I know...he would fall all over himself to be with him....

I so hate phony people.

Lord, I beg you to change my mind... and minister to all people. I know that wainscott would be the first (or one of the first) people you would hang out with. Help me be like you.... work with those that most consider to be trash, phony.

DEAD PASTOR WALKING

2010-06-16T17:12:00.001-07:00

Dead Pastor Walking

I listened to a Pastor the other day
that stood and said... “Check my way.”
Loudly, he proclaimed. “Here is my source.”
internally, I thought...yes, yes-- of course.

The words sound right but something annoyed
alone at night, I read—prayed, then enjoyed.
The real words as they were meant to be heard
and, of course, I read-- God's Word.

I had a Pastor the other day
that proudly stood and said... “chEck my wAy.”
crying, I had to turn, walkaway
sadly... he knows, not --“The Way”

Walking home, I looked back
and saw more people turning their backs
on that Pastor that walks his way
and claims “Hey, check my way.”

Quotes by the thousands flow from his lips
and for a moment they sound “hip”
But, the Words we need-- flow through time
and touch hearts like yours and mine.

No, we do not need a man
we need to hold each others hand
support each other and hold on tight
For God will come as a thief in the night

I love God and gaming....

2010-06-16T13:27:00.000-07:00

Without a doubt I play video games.. I have since childhood.. (err back then they were called ah...hmmm Board Games.....).. so ok, you got me... first cpu game was Zork.. I have been hooked ever since.
in Fresno, I played "lan parties.... 10-15 people over at my house all computers hooked up and netted together..
BBQ smoking in the backyard... and Quake up and running... haaaa....

I had limited success with lan parties here in Bakersfield but MMO's just were to easy to use and the demise of the lan party has happened....truly, that sucks...

Strangely, a different community has sprung up.... in the MMO's are chances to bring my faith into the game and play with many of those that do not believe in God..meet me in the playing field... my on-line Avatar is SirDyson... love to play with you...

aaa.. ya.. you'll need to tell me which game you play.. I have hundreds..
enjoy my next game... Two Worlds 2

Video Games | Two Worlds II | E3 2010: Exclusive Debut Trailer HD

XBox 360 | Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii

Strange Discovery on Titan Leads to Speculation of Alien Life - Yahoo! News

2010-06-07T10:35:00.000-07:00

Here is my Question.... when we find life on another planet AND WE WILL...... What happens to our view of God?

Strange Discovery on Titan Leads to Speculation of Alien Life - Yahoo! News

Strange Discovery on Titan Leads to Speculation of Alien Life

1 vote har

Charles Q. Choi
SPACE.com Contributor
SPACE.com – 1 hr 45 mins ago

New findings have roused a great deal of hoopla over the possibility of life on Saturn's moon Titan, which some news reports have further hyped up as hints of extraterrestrials.

However, scientists also caution that aliens might have nothing to do with these findings.

All this excitement is rooted in analyses of chemical data returned by NASA's Cassini spacecraft. One study suggested that hydrogen was flowing down through Titan's atmosphere and disappearing at the surface. Astrobiologist Chris McKay at NASA Ames Research Center speculated this could be a tantalizing hint that hydrogen is getting consumed by life.

"It's the obvious gas for life to consume on Titan, similar to the way we consume oxygen on Earth," McKay said.

FULL STORY HERE

Walt Whitman Meteor Mystery Solved by Astronomer Sleuths - Yahoo! News

2010-06-05T09:06:00.000-07:00

Walt Whitman Meteor Mystery Solved by Astronomer Sleuths - Yahoo! News

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Zoe Macintosh
SPACE.com Staff Writer
SPACE.com – Sat Jun 5, 8:31 am ET

The long-standing mystery over exactly what famed poet Walt Whitman saw streaking though the sky 150 years ago has apparently been solved by a team of bookworm astronomers.

Following a trail that began with a 19th century painting and led to hundreds of newspaper reports, the researchers discovered that the "strange huge meteor-procession" mentioned in Whitman's noted collection "Leaves of Grass" indeed refers to a rare procession of earth-grazing meteors that occurred in 1860.

"Meteor processions are so rare most people have never heard of them," said Texas State University physics professor Donald Olson, who worked on the investigation. "There was one in 1783 and a Canadian fireball procession in 1913. Those were all the meteor processions we knew of."

Earth-grazing meteors unmasked

Earth-grazers enter the atmosphere at low angle, from the point of view of a given skywatcher, and appear to scoot slowly and dramatically along the horizon. They're much different than meteors appearing overhead and shooting swiftly toward the horizon

The Andrew Sisters...

2010-05-31T09:22:00.000-07:00

The Anthropocene scene

2010-05-30T10:56:00.000-07:00

We can make a difference. Seriously. They might even name a whole epoch after us.

We live in the Holocene epoch, part of the Quaternary period, which belongs to the Cenozoic era, which in turn resides in the Phanerozoic eon. At 12,000 years of age the Holocene is still just a pup, but its days may be numbered. About a decade ago, Nobel Prize winning chemist Paul Crutzen declared

read the rest: The Anthropocene scene

At NYC sci fest, asking 'What if we're holograms?'

2010-05-30T10:53:00.000-07:00

At NYC sci fest, asking 'What if we're holograms?'

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By SAMANTHA GROSS, Associated Press Writer – Sat May 29, 3:07 pm ET

NEW YORK – Brian Greene works in a world where scientific reasoning rules all and imagination leads to the most unlikely truths.

Greene and other "string theorists" are exploring a possible scenario in which people and the world around us are actually a 3-D holographic projection of two-dimensional data that exists outside the accessible universe.

It's a concept so mindbending for those who don't understand the complex math behind it that many might decide it's best left to the academics. But Greene wants to build public excitement about science, even as the U.S. loses ground in some areas — and intends to bring even the most complex ideas to the masses at this week's World Science Festival, which starts June 2.

"The idea is to ... find the compelling narrative and stories that allow these programs to really feel like an experience and not a lesson," says Greene, wearing a leather jacket that practically exudes old-school, rock-star cool. It's an appropriate look for a man who has brought the possible inner workings of the universe to scores of non-geniuses through his book "The Elegant Universe" and the PBS specials by the same name.

Moscow turns ownership of public monasteries over to Orthodox Church - CSMonitor.com

2010-05-28T07:54:00.000-07:00

Moscow turns ownership of public monasteries over to Orthodox Church - CSMonitor.com

Moscow turns ownership of public monasteries over to Orthodox Church

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has ordered the handover of about 20 Moscow-area monasteries to the Russian Orthodox Church, returning properties seized during the Bolshevik Revolution almost a century ago.

Novodevichy convent, Moscow: The oldest structure at the Russian Orthodox Church monastery is the five-domed Cathedral of Our Lady of Smolensk, built in the 1500s. In Soviet times, it was turned into a state museum and apartments. Nuns were allowed to return in 1994.

Fred Weir

EnlargePhotos (1 of 2)

By Fred Weir, Correspondent / May 27, 2010

Moscow

The stunning 16th-century fortified convent of Novodevichy, a pearl of Russian architecture nestled in a broad bend of the Moskva River about three miles from the Kremlin, is at the heart of a tense battle. Cultural secularists want the UNESCO Heritage Site to remain a state-run museum, but the Kremlin has made a political decision to return the entire complex to the stewardship of theRussian Orthodox Church.

Earthquakes

2010-05-27T09:27:00.000-07:00

mr dave wainscott and crap Theology, Philosophy, and Epistemological thinkin.

2010-05-20T11:31:00.000-07:00

All I have ever asked people to do is not give in and follow one man as he travels through his own demons and reports on Theology, Philosophy, and Epistemological thinking!!!

In particular I abhor individual thinking (such as mr dave wainscott's) that does not or can not give alternative periscopes of thought.

These people (Like Wainscott) are unclear in thoughts.

Even his own people who read his quotes can not understand his statements. He (wailing Wainscott) must rewrite his comments when readers submit their thoughts.

Here, for your consideration, is one man's thoughts that offers a number of views for you.

1 THESSALONIANS 4:13-5:11

Robert L. Thomas
Robert L. Thomas (PhD, Dallas Theological Seminary) is professor of New Testament at The Master’s Seminary.

He is the author or coauthor of numerous books and other works, including the commentaries on 1 and 2 Thessalonians in the Holt series.... Click for more information about Robert L. Thomas

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B. Exhortation Regarding Eschatological Needs (4:13-5:11)

1. The dead in Christ (4:13-18)

13-18 Another issue raised by Timothy's report requires clarification: the part of the Christian dead in Christ's parousia (his coming). Paul discusses this new subject in one of the classic NT passages on the Lord's return (vv. 13-18). The lack of knowledge of the Thessalonians concerning the part their fellow Christians who had died will have when the parousia occurs led him to write this reassuring paragraph.

13 Paul's words "we do not want you to be ignorant" as usual mark what follows for special attention. Here they introduce the correction of false impressions (cf. Rom 11:25; 1Cor 10:1; 12:1). The Thessalonians had concluded that "those who sleep" would miss the victories and glory of the Lord's return. "Those who sleep" (ton koimomenon) is an expression chosen in lieu of the "the dead" (v. 15) because of death's temporary nature for Christians (cf. 1Cor 7:39; 11:30; 15:6, 18, 20, 51; cf. also John 11:11). Though the pagans used "sleep" as a metaphor for "death," it is especially appropriate for Christians because of their assured bodily resurrection. Paul had previously taught the Thessalonians about the resurrection. On the basis of the resurrection our Christian "hope" has objective reality. That this sleep refers to the physical body and not to man's spirit is clear for several reasons. Death for Paul did not mean a state of unconscious repose, but a condition of being with Christ (Philippians 1:23). Also the expression "dead in Christ" (v. 16) is meaningless in connection with soul sleep, for a nonexistent sleeper can hardly be in union with Christ. Paul viewed "those who sleep" as continuing their relationship with Christ in heaven while their bodies were in the grave. The essential issue is not the fact of bodily resurrection, but what part, if any, those so raised will play in the parousia.

Paul wanted to deliver his readers from the grief experienced by "the rest of men" (cf. "outsiders," v. 12). Non-Christians sorrow out of pity for the departed who have ventured into an unknown realm. For Christians, however, there should be no sorrow on behalf of believers who are dead. Grief on behalf of the living and the loss sustained when a loved one dies is legitimate for Christians (Philippians 2:27), but that kind of grief is not in view here. Those who have died are better off than those left behind and will be equal participants in future resurrection and the glory of Christ.

14 For Christians, relief from sorrow is related to what the future holds. Just as "Jesus died and rose again," so will "those who sleep in him" be raised when God brings them to heaven with Jesus at his parousia. The fact of Jesus' death and resurrection guarantees as its sequel the eventual resurrection of the dead in Christ. This is similar to the guarantee of his return in 1:10.

It is significant that Paul does not refer to Jesus' death as "sleep." The difference between Jesus' experience and that of believers is that he really endured actual separation from God for the world's sins. Because of his real death Christian death has been transformed into sleep (Milligan, p. 57).

Though we might expect Paul to write "God will raise" instead of "God will bring with Jesus," he used the latter because of an unexpressed connection in his mind between the two ideas. To be brought with Jesus presupposes rising from the dead as part of the process (v. 16). This is what had been taught the Thessalonians. Yet their ultimate anticipation is not just that of being raised, but that of being "with Jesus" (4:14; cf. 4:17; 5:10). Beyond resurrection this is the consummating desire of Christians. But even more is in store for Christians. The words "God will bring" point to a continuing movement heavenward after the meeting in the air (v. 17), until the arrival in the Father's presence (3:13; cf. John 14:2, 3). A more detailed analysis of the process follows (gar, v. 15).

15-17 The authority that validates Paul's affirmation ("we believe") in v. 14 is nothing less than "the Lord's own word" (logou kyriou, "the word of the Lord"; cf. 1:8). Various attempts have been made to identify this source more specifically. Some say Jesus spoke the words while on earth, their substance being recorded later in such places as Matthew 24:30, 31 and John 6:39, 40; 11:25, 26. Similarities between this passage in 1 Thessalonians and the gospel accounts include a trumpet (Matt 24:31), a resurrection John 11:25, 26), and a gathering of the elect (Matt 24:31) (Robert Gundry, The Church and the Tribulation [Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1973],pp. 104, 135).Yet dissimilarities between it and the canonical sayings of Christ far outweigh the resemblances (Olshausen, p. 138; Lightfoot, p. 65; Moffatt, p. 37; Hendriksen, p. 114). Some of the differences between Matthew 24:30, 31 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 are as follows: (1) In Matthew the Son of Man is coming on the clouds (but see Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27), in 1 Thessalonians ascending believers are in them. (2) In the former the angels gather, in the latter the Son does so personally. (3) In the former nothing is said about resurrection, while in the latter this is the main theme. (4) Matthew records nothing about the order of ascent, which is the principal lesson in Thessalonians. Distinctions between this and the Johannine passages are just as pronounced, if not more so.

Another suggestion has it that this is a saying of Jesus not contained in the canonical Gospels. Acts 20:35 is cited as another quotation of a non-Gospel saying (Moffatt, p. 37). It is further speculated that a saying like this may have come as a sequel to Jesus' repeated predictions of his disciples' martyrdom (Matt 10:28; 24:9; Mark 8:34; 10:39, 40; 13:12, 13; John 16:2). Such could have raised the issue of the disadvantage in martyrdom as compared with surviving to the parousia Jeremias, p. 67). Though possible, this suggestion is not probable. Because of its relevance to early Christian circumstances, such a saying of Jesus would hardly have been passed over by the Gospel writers (Milligan, p. 58).

For Paul to have claimed this special authority for his own personal utterances does not adequately explain the definiteness of the expression "the Lord's own word" (Best, p. 190). Or for him to have drawn the saying from a Jewish or early Christian apocalyptic writing is not likely. The closest extrabiblical approximation to 4:15-17 is 4 Esdras 7:28, but 4 Esdras came at the end of the first century or in the early second century, too late for Paul to have known it (R.H. Charles, Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha [London: Oxford, 1913] 2:552-553).

"The Lord's own word," therefore, is probably a direct revelation to the church through one of her prophets, Paul himself or possibly some other. The NT prophet's function was to instruct and console believers (cf. v. 18 with 1Cor 14:31), utilizing predictions about the future in the process (Acts 11:27, 28; 21:11). Since these elements are prominent here and since 1 Corinthians 15:51 classifies this subject as "mystery" revelation, which is the character of prophetic utterances, this explanation of Paul's external authority is quite satisfactory (Best, pp. 191-193; Hiebert, pp. 196, 197). Nowhere in these Epistles are the addressees reminded of having heard this teaching previously, though they were fully informed about the day of the Lord (1 Thess 5:2). How they could have been uninformed about this detail of the parousia (v. 13) is not disclosed. Conceivably it could have been a special revelation to Paul for the sake of answering their question through Timothy, or it might have been a revelation received at another time since Paul's departure from the city. Whenever it came, it was now the privilege of the Thessalonians to know certain details about departed believers' part in the parousia.

The first part of Paul's prophetic revelation in vv. 15-17 tells what will not happen. Believers "who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord," will not go to meet him before the dead in Christ do so (v. 15). When Paul uses "we," he apparently places this event within his own lifetime. How then can it be explained that the parousia did not precede Paul's death? To theorize that Paul was mistaken and to consider biblical inspiration in the light of such errors James Denney, Expositors Bible [Hodder and Stoughton, n.d.], pp. 175-177) is to ignore Paul's avoidance of date setting (1 Thess 5:1, 2). In view of Jesus' teaching about our not knowing the day or hour of his coming (Matt 24; 36; cf. Acts 1:7), surely Paul would not limit it to his own lifespan.

Another possibility is to understand the participles zontes and perileipomenoi as being hypothetical and meaning "if we live, if we remain." Yet rarely, if ever, can attributive participles function in such an adverbial and conditional sense. Furthermore, this sense would hardly fit the same two words in v. 17 (Best, p. 195).

Some have also been proposed that Paul used less-than-honest means to prepare the Thessalonians for the Lord's return. With a good motive he proposed a time limit, though he knew Christ's word to the contrary (Matt 24:36). Aside from Paul's rejection of the unethical practice of making the end justify the means (Rom 3:8), this proposal conflicts with 1 Thessalonians 5:1, 2.

Others have suggested that Paul simply establishes two categories—those alive and those asleep. Since he did not fit into the latter, he took his place with the former. His presence in one or the other is inconsequential, however (Ellicott, pp. 62, 63; Hogg and Vine, pp. 138-140; Hiebert, p. 196). By entertaining the possibility of his own death before the parousia, as he did elsewhere (2Cor 5:9; Philippians 1:21 ff.; 2:17; 2Tim 4:6), Paul could not have meant more than to establish two categories here (Auberlen and Riggenbach, p. 76). While somewhat plausible, this view fails to explain the emphatic hemeis ("we," v. 15) or tell us why Paul used the first person instead of the third (Best, p. 195).

More feasible is the solution that sees Paul setting an example of expectancy for the church of all ages (Lightfoot, p. 67). Proper Christian anticipation includes the imminent return of Christ. His coming will be sudden and unexpected, an any-moment possibility. This means that no divinely revealed prophesies remain to be fulfilled before that event. Without setting a deadline, Paul hoped that it would transpire in his own lifetime. Entertaining the possibility of his own death (2Tim 4:6-8) and not desiring to contravene Christ's teaching about delay (Matt 24:48; 25:5; Luke 19:11-27), Paul, along with all primitive Christianity, reckoned on the prospect of remaining alive till Christ returned (Rom 13:11; 1Cor 7:26, 29; 10:11; 15:51, 52; 16:22; Philippians 4:5). A personal hope of this type characterized him throughout his days (2Cor 5:1-4; Philippians 3:20, 21; 1Tim 6:14; 2Tim 4:8, Titus 2:11-13). Had this not been the Thessalonians' outlook, their question regarding the dead in Christ and exclusion from the parousia would have been meaningless. They were thinking in terms of an imminent parousia, expecting to see it before death (Best, p. 183). An intervening period of messianic woes or birthpangs was not their anticipation (Best, p. 184), for such intense persecution would have meant probable martyrdom, and in that case they would have had doubts about their own participation in the parousia. Hence, Paul believed and had taught his converts that the next event on the prophetic calendar for them was their being gathered to Christ.

This teaching about a future parousia that will be a cosmic and dateable event in world history is as valid for the twentieth century as it was for the first. It is not to be explained away as an event outside history because of the alleged limited cosmological framework of early Christian minds (cf. Best, pp. 360-370). Just as God intervened in history through his Son's first coming, so he will do at his return.

The principal assertion of v. 15, then, concerns those who are alive and anticipating Christ's momentary return, as was Paul, and their relation to "those who have fallen asleep." The former group "will certainly not precede" the latter. This strong assertion alleviates the Thessalonians' apprehension about their dead.

The positive chronology of vv. 16, 17 supports this strong statement (cf. the gar ["for"] at the beginning of v. 16). Without any intermediary, "the Lord himself will come down from heaven" (v. 16), where he has been since ascending to the Father's right hand. In so doing, he will issue "a loud command," such as one given by a person with authority. The purpose is to awaken "those who have fallen asleep." Associated with the command will be "the voice of the archangel," probably Michael's Jude 9) and "the trumpet call" (cf. 1Cor 15:52). As a sequel to this movement from heaven, "the dead in Christ" will rise before anything else occurs. Far from being excluded from the parousia, they will be main participants in the first act of the Lord's return. This word of comfort must have brought great relief to the Thessalonians and it has certainly done so for innumerable Christians after them.

Only "after that" (v. 17) will living Christians "be caught up" for the meeting with Christ. The interval separating the two groups will be infinitesimally small by human reckoning. Yet the dead in Christ will go first. They will be the first to share in the glory of his visit. Then the living among whom Paul still hoped to be (cf. "we") will be suddenly snatched away (harpagesometha, "caught up"; cf. Acts 8:39; 2Cor 12:2, 4; Rev 12:5). This term in Latin, raptus, is the source of the popular designation of this event as the "rapture." So sudden will it be that Paul likens it to a blinking of the eye (1Cor 15:52). In this rapid sequence the living will undergo an immediate change from mortality to immortality (1Cor 15:52, 53), after which they will be insusceptible to death.

Together with the resurrected believers, they will ascend, be enshrouded in the clouds of the sky (cf. Acts 1:9), and meet the Lord somewhere in the interspace between earth and heaven ("air," aera).

The nature of this "meeting" (apantesin, v. 17) deserves comment. Some feel that the technical force of the word obtains—i.e., a visitor would be formally met by a delegation of citizens and ceremonially escorted back into their city (Best, p. 199). On this basis, they contend that Christians go out to meet the Lord and return with him as he continues his advent to earth. Advocates of this proposal see this connotation in two other NT usages of the word (Matt 25:6; Acts 28:15, 16) (George Ladd, The Blessed Hope [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956], p. 91; William C. Thomas, The Blessed Hope [William C. Thomas, 1972], pp. 5, 6). Whether or not this is true is debatable. Even if it were true, Christ would not necessarily be escorted back to earth immediately (Gundry, pp. 104, 105). Usage of the noun in LXX as well as differing features of the present context (e.g., Christians' being snatched away rather than advancing on their own to meet the visitor) is sufficient to remove this passage from the technical Hellenistic sense of the word (Moulton, Prolegomena, p. 14, n.4; Best, p. 199). A meeting in the air is pointless unless the saints continue on to heaven with the Lord who has come out to meet them (Milligan, p. 61). Tradition stemming from Jesus' parting instructions fixes the immediate destination following the meeting, as the Father's house, i.e., heaven (John 14:2, 3) John Walvoord, The Thessalonian Epistles [Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1967], p. 70).

The location is secondary, however, in light of the final outcome. To "be with the Lord forever" represents the fruition of a relationship begun at the new birth and far outweighs any other consideration of time and eternity.

18 With this word of assurance, Paul gives a basis for his converts to "encourage [parakaleite] each other."

See 1 Thessalonians 4 Notes.

2. The day of the Lord (5:1-11)

a. The coming of the day (5:1, 2)

1 With the perplexity about the dead in Christ resolved, Paul turns to a new subject (cf. peri de, "now about") yet not one completely distinct from the previous one. It is wrong to say that the two are so different as to be in contrast (Ryrie, "The Church and the Tribulation: A Review," BS, April-June, 1974, p. 75; Ellicott, p. 67). But it is equally wrong to see this as a simple continuation of the same subject (W.C. Thomas, p. 7). The proper interpretation recognizes a shift in thought, but not without some connection with the foregoing (Walvoord, p. 81; Gundry, p. 105). The direct and affectionate address "brothers" marks the new discussion as an addition prompted by Timothy's report of the Thessalonians' situation. The nonarrival of the parousia had created another perplexity for them (Best, p. 203).

Despite their ignorance about the dead in Christ (4:13), they had received prior instruction regarding other eschatological matters. "We do not need to write to you" is Paul's attestation to this fact. "Times and dates" (ton chronon kai ton kairon) are well-known words describing the end times from two perspectives. The former conceives more of elapsed time and hence a particular date or dates when predictions will be fulfilled. The latter word, while including some reference to extent of time, gives more attention to the character or quality of a given period, i.e., what signs will accompany the consummating events. The two words together have this same eschatological connotation in Acts 1:7; 3:19-21. The latter word very frequently refers to this future period (Dan 9:27, LXX; Mark 13:33; Luke 21:8, 24; Eph 1:10; 1Tim 6:15; Titus 1:3; Heb 9:10; Rev 1:3; 11:18; 22:10) (Ellicott, p. 67; Milligan, p. 63; Lightfoot, pp. 70, 71). During his first visit Paul had effectively communicated the basic features of precise times and accompanying circumstances of future events.

2 For this reason he could say to the Thessalonians, "You know very well" the features of the day of the Lord. "Very well" translates akribos, a word of precision. Paul is not sarcastically alluding to their own claim, but conceding that their previous learning on this subject had been adequate, definite, and specific, ultimately including even pertinent teachings of Christ (Matt 24:43; Luke 12:39) (Lightfoot, p. 71; Ellicott, p. 68).

The focus is on "the day of the Lord." A theme for extensive biblical attention, this "day" has multiple characteristics. It is so associated with the ultimate overthrow of God's enemies (Isa 2:12) that hemera ("day") sometimes means "judgment" (1Cor 4:3). It will be a day of national deliverance for Israel and a day of salvation (1 Thess 5:9), but it will also be a day when God's wrath puts extended pressure on his enemies (Isa 3:16-24; 13:9-11; Jer 30:7; Ezek 38-39; Amos 5:18, 19; Zeph 1:14-18; 1 Thess 1:10; 2:16; 5:9). By using "day of the Lord" terminology to describe the great tribulation, Christ includes the tribulation within the day of the Lord (cf. Matt 24:21 with Jer 30:7; Dan 12:1; Joel 2:2). This time of trial at the outset of the earthly day of the Lord will thus not be brief, but comparable to a woman's labor before giving birth to a child (Isa 13:8; 26:17-19; 66:7 ff.; Jer 30:7, 8; Micah 4:9, 10; Matt 24:8; 1 Thess 5:3) (Pentecost, Things to Come [Findlay, Ohio: Dunham, 1958], p. 230; McClain, The Greatness of the Kingdom [Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1959], pp. 186-191). Growing human agony will be climaxed by Messiah's second coming to earth, a coming that will terminate this earthly turmoil through direct judgment. He cannot personally appear on earth, however, until this preliminary period has run its course. Armageddon and the series of tribulation visitations prior to it are inseparable from each other (Rev 6-19). If Christ's triumphant return to earth (Rev 19:11-21) is part of the day of the Lord, as all admit, so special divine dealings preparatory to it must also be part of it. God's eschatological wrath is a unit. It is quite arbitrary to hypothesize two kinds of future wrath, one prior to the day of the Lord and another within it (cf. Gundry, pp. 46, 54).

But this earthly wrath does not pertain to those in Christ (v. 9). Their meeting with Christ will be "in the air" and separate from God's dealing with those on earth. The only way to hold that this meeting with Christ in the air is an imminent prospect is to see it as simultaneous with the beginning of the divine judgment against earth. Only if the rapture coincides with the beginning of the day of the Lord can both be imminent and the salvation of those in Christ coincide with the coming of wrath to the rest (v. 9) (Walvoord, p. 81).

Were either the rapture or the day of the Lord to precede the other, one or the other would cease to be an imminent prospect to which the "thief in the night" and related expressions (1:10; 4:15, 17) are inappropriate. That both are any-moment possibilities is why Paul can talk about these two in successive paragraphs. This is how the Lord's personal coming as well as the "day's" coming can be compared to a thief (2 Peter 3:4, 10; Rev 3:3, 11; 16:15). Erchetai ("will come") is a vivid futuristic present (cf. John 14:3) to portray the day as already on its way with an arrival anticipated any time (cf. 1:10). "In the night" is a detail of the simile not given in other NT usages. It simply names the usual time for thievery, i.e., under cover of darkness. Such unexpectedness will mark the tribulation's inauguration.

The Thessalonians were now instructed about these matters, though later they were to be deceived regarding them (2 Thess 2:1, 2). Yet even with their present knowledge they had difficulty in applying the truths in a practical way while waiting for the day. So Paul seeks to alleviate this difficulty.

b. Unbelievers and the day (5:3)

3 The surprise beginning of the day of the Lord has a twofold impact. For those who are not in Christ and therefore unprepared, the consequences are far from cheerful. "People," "them," and "they" are identified only when v. 4 contrasts them with the "brothers" who are the addressees. The "nonbrothers" compose an unbelieving world against whom the devastation of the coming day will be unleashed. Just as disaster overtakes the unsuspecting householder when set upon by a robber, so catastrophe will overcome the living who are spiritual outsiders.

They will be priding themselves on their secure life styles. "Peace" characterizes their inward repose, while "safety" reveals their freedom from outward interference (Ellicott, p. 69; Frame, p. 181). Yet at the moment that tranquility seemingly reaches its peak, "destruction will come on them suddenly." "Destruction" means utter and hopeless ruin, a loss of everything worthwhile (Milligan, p. 65; Frame, p. 182), causing the victims to despair of life itself (Rev 9:6). Without being totally annihilated, they are assigned to wrath and denied the privileges of salvation (v. 9).

Comparing the beginning of this period with a period of labor pains just before childbirth makes vivid the unexpectedness with which the former comes (cf. Isa 13:8, 9; Jer 4:31; Hos 13:13; Mic 4:9). Pain is certainly involved in both (Isa 66:7) as are certainty and nearness, but "suddenly" points most prominently to the absence of any forewarning. Tribulation will suddenly become worldwide, rendering it impossible for non-Christians to escape.

c. Believers and the day (5:4-11)

4 In contrast to the non-Christians referred to in v. 3 as "them" and "they," and in v. 6 as "others," are the believers in Thessalonica whom Paul affectionately calls "brothers." Continuing the figure of night (v. 2), "darkness" refers to the realm of wickedness and the darkened understanding and ignorance of impending doom that go with it (Ellicott, p. 70; Frame, p. 183). Such symbolical language occurs quite widely in nonbiblical and biblical writings (Best, p. 209; Conzelmann, TDNT, 7:428, 429, 431-433, 441-445; cf. Deut 28:29; Job 19:8; 22:10, 11; 30:26; Ps 11:2; 74:20; 82:5; Isa 42:6, 7; Jer 13:16; Matt 10:27; John 3:19; 8:12; Rom 13:12; 2Cor 4:6; Eph 4:18; 5:8, 11; 1 John 1:5, 6). In reassuring his converts, Paul declares without qualification that those in Christ belong to a realm different from that of the world.

Growing out of this assertion that believers will not participate in darkness is the promise of their non-participation in "the day" of the Lord. It will not overtake them by surprise—"like a thief" overtakes his victim. As v. 5 explains, their position in Christ guarantees their deliverance from this.

5 Paul's assertion, "you are all sons of the light and sons of the day," rules out dwelling in darkness. "All" brings reassurance that none are excluded. The fainthearted may take heart as may those others who have been confused about the parousia (cf. 4:11, 12; 5:14) (Frame, p. 184).

To reinforce his point, Paul returns to the negative side. Putting light and day in inverse order, he excludes himself along with all Christians from the night of moral insensitivity (cf. "sons of the light" … "darkness"; "sons of the day" … "night"). By a casual change from "you" to "we" he takes his place with his readers in accepting the exhortation of v. 6. This dulls the edge of what would otherwise be a sharp rebuke (Frame, p. 185). "The day" has no reference to the eschatological day of the Lord, as the anarthrous construction attests, but is used metaphorically in association with spiritual light (Lightfoot, p. 73). Verse 5 guarantees the readers' participation in a spiritual environment entirely different from that of non-Christians.

6 This provides a solid basis ("so then," ara oun) for the ethical behavior Paul now urges on the Thessalonians. It is a life style free from moral laxity. Katheudomen ("let us not sleep") represents the ethical insensitivity that besets people of the other realm ("like others," hoi loipoi; cf. 4:13). While it is impossible for the day of the Lord to catch Christians unprepared, it is possible for them to adopt the same life style as those who will be caught unawares. Paul urges his readers not to let this happen.

Conduct in keeping with "the light" and "the day" also includes alertness. Inattention to spiritual priorities is utterly out of keeping for those who will not be subject to the coming day of wrath. Though the Thessalonians were, if anything, overly watchful to the point of neglecting other Christian responsibilities (4:11, 12; 2 Thess 3:6-15), they were not to cease watching altogether.

Apparently self-control was a great need. Nepho ("to be self-controlled") is found with gregoreo ("to be alert," "to watch") in a noneschatological context in 1 Peter 5:8. Its usage in 1 Peter 1:13 and 4:7 is eschatological. Nepho denotes sobriety. To counteract what might become a state of wild alarm or panic, Paul urges self-control as a balance for vagaries arising from distorted views of the parousia. Undue eschatological excitement was a serious problem; spiritual sobriety was the cure.

7 To explain his exhortation in v. 6, Paul appeals to everyday experience. Sleep and drunkenness are most often associated with the night. So he illustrates his figurative use of "sleep" in v. 6 by referring to the normal habit of sleep and uses "drunkenness" to point up his reference to sobriety.

8 Here Paul resumes his exhortation but drops for the moment the need for alertness, speaking only of sobriety as a countermeasure against "spiritual" drunkenness. The idea of belonging to the realm of "spiritual" daylight goes back to vv. 4, 5 and becomes the motivation for self-controlled action. So Paul goes on to describe "self-control" in figurative language drawn from Isaiah 59:17 (cf. Eph 6:14-17). Though the breastplate and helmet were Roman military apparel, lexical similarity to the Isaiah passage points to the OT as the probable source for the reference to them here.

The relation of this soldierly figure of speech to sobriety has been a puzzle. Frame suggests soberness as a prerequisite to effective vigilance by a sentry on duty (Frame, p. 187). Yet vigilance is covered in the earlier word on alertness. Obviously, intoxication prevents effective duty as a sentry, and this thought may supply the answer. To be armed against wild excitement with its disregard of normal Christian responsibilities requires soberness. Paul had earlier spoken of the need for calmness (4:11, 12). The Thessalonians had already made significant progress in faith and love (1:3; 3:6), but additional improvement was still needed (3:10; 4:1, 10). So the breastplate of faith and love could furnish protection from the problems mentioned in 5:14. To these Paul added the indispensable helmet of the hope of salvation (cf. 1:10). These three (faith, love, and hope) strengthened them for their present trials (1:3) and doubts (5:14). The Thessalonians could confidently anticipate a future deliverance not to be enjoyed by those in darkness (v. 3), but assured to those in the realm of light (vv. 4, 5). Self-control consists of balancing future expectations with present obligations. The well-equipped soldier wears both a breastplate and a helmet.

9 Paul now summarizes the reason for this guaranteed salvation. Negatively, "God did not appoint us to suffer wrath." Without question, this wrath is future and specific, being identified with the messianic era just prior to his reappearance (1:10; 2:16) and with the sudden destruction mentioned in v. 3. "Appoint" (etheto) is used regularly for God's sovereign determination of events (Milligan, p. 69). When God vents his anger against earth dwellers (Rev 6:16, 17), the body of Christ will be in heaven as the result of the series of happenings outlined in 4:14-17 (cf. 3:13). This is God's purpose.

The positive side of this purpose is that believers will "receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." "Receive" represents the noun peripoiesin that some have translated actively as "gaining," "winning," or "acquiring" (Hiebert, p. 223; Hendriksen, p. 128; Best, p. 217) and others have interpreted passively as "possession" or "adoption" (Lightfoot, p. 76). The former meaning injects human effort into procuring future salvation and emphasizes alert activity. Yet the thought of "acquiring one's own salvation" conflicts with God's unconditional appointment of believers to salvation. Furthermore, the incompatibility of the word's usual active meaning of "preservation" (or "preserve") with future salvation is obvious. And in view of the cognate verb peripoieo with its technical connotation of divine action in God's procuring a people for himself, taking peripoiesin passively becomes more plausible. Also the antithetical orgen ("wrath") clearly implies divine activity. As Christians have been elected (1:4), they have also been adopted. For them to be possessed by God as his very own is synonymous with the future salvation to come "through our Lord Jesus Christ." In this divine operation, human diligence is not a factor. Therefore, in the certainty of this provision the Thessalonians could find relief from the frantic activity and panic that had been disturbing their tranquil anticipation of the future.

10 This verse is noteworthy. Here for the first time in all Paul's writings, he states the specific means by which Jesus Christ procures our salvation: "He died for us." In four key Epistles (Rom, 1 and 2 Cor, Gal), Paul laid prime emphasis on this about five years later. But only here in the Thessalonian letters does he mention the death of Christ though it had undoubtedly been presented as the basis of all his teaching about salvation (cf. Acts 17:2, 3). Though the purpose of the letters does not call for an extended discussion of the death of Christ, here it is important in establishing the definite historical basis of our salvation. His death was "for us" or "on our behalf"—i.e., it was the sole condition in procuring as God's peculiar possession a people destined for salvation when the rest of the world is plunged into the wrath of the future day.

So sufficient is Christ's death that it brings assurance of future life with all obstacles removed. In fact, this was the very reason he died. It is conceivable, though highly improbable, that "awake" and "asleep" actually refer to physical conditions (cf. Luke 17:34). Katheudo ("asleep," NIV) has this literal sense in v. 7.

A more plausible suggestion takes "awake or asleep" as metaphorical terms for the living and the dead. This is consistent with Paul's discussion in 4:13-18 and matches Jesus' use of katheudo ("sleep") in raising Jairus' daughter (Matt 9:24). Yet this use of katheudo is rare. Only with difficulty can one explain its substitution for the metaphorical koimao ("sleep") of the previous section (4:13, 14, 15). Furthermore, gregoreo ("to be awake") is never used metaphorically for physical life in the Greek Bible (Milligan, p. 70) or in any literature (Oepke, TDNT, 2:338-339). Paul's word for "to live" is zao (4:15, 17). To assign this metaphorical sense to "awake" or "asleep" is not probable because it makes v. 10 a needless repetition of what is already proved in 4:13-18.

An explanation that is exegetically preferable and of less difficulty takes gregoromen ("we are awake") and katheudomen ("we are asleep") in an ethical sense as in v. 6. Since future salvation has been so fully provided by Christ's finished work, it cannot be cancelled by lack of readiness. Moral preparedness or unpreparedness does not affect the issue one way or the other. Though at first this suggestion seems to nullify Paul's earlier exhortation to alertness (v. 6), it must be acknowledged that this meaning for gregoreo is well established in other places besides the present paragraph (Matt 24:42; 25:13; Mark 13:35, 37; Rev 3:3; 16:15) (Hogg and Vine, p. 172; Oepke, TDNT, 2:338). This conclusion also recognizes the established meaning of katheudo in the present context and accords with the strong case for the secure position of the believers (5:4, 5, 9).

There still remains, however, a serious obstacle to this ethical meaning of "awake or asleep," namely its seeming nullification of the exhortation of vv. 6-8. Yet this is a problem only if these exhortations are understood as relating just to watchfulness. We have not, however, found this to be the case. The Thessalonians were already watchful and Paul warns them against extremes of overreaction. "Self-control" or "soberness" (vv. 6, 8) serve as a complementary emphasis. Paul seeks to restore a proper balance between future anticipations and present obligations. In helping the Thessalonians, therefore, he had to calm their fears by convincing them of their participation in the parousia regardless of their degree of watchfulness. Every contingency has been met through the work done at Calvary by God himself. Christians need not fear missing the Lord's return, because they are "sons of the light and sons of the day" (vv. 4, 5). Their enjoyment of the future resurrection life in union with Christ is certain.

11 With such a guarantee, the Thessalonians are now equipped to "encourage one another and build each other up." As in 4:18, parakaleite ("encourage") has more a consolatory than a hortatory meaning. Here is an unconditional pledge to strengthen even the weakest in faith. It can also build up another Christian. Oikodomeite ("build … up") was later to become one of Paul's favorite ways of writing about growth in the church (Eph 2:20-22; 4:12). An intellectual grasp of the provisions Paul has been describing leads to individual as well as collective growth of the body of Christ. Paul is quick to acknowledge progress along this line: "just as in fact you are doing." Yet he also looks forward to even greater attainments (cf. 4:1).